I am afraid Samurais are all show just like other oriental martial arts and lack the lethality the mental edge, technology, and degree of dedication to the art of war that the spartans had.
Personally i think a Spartan woudl kill a Samurai with nothing more than his Shield.....
So all you martial arts wanabees still think a Samurai is better than a Spartan.....?
It is all an issue of personal skill. A well trained spartan warrior could beat a poorly trained samurai in most cases, but a well trained samurai will beat a poorly trained spartan warrior in most cases. Let me guess though, you just saw 300, or want to? Anyway, to address your other... points... a samurai is the ultimate dedicated warrior. Spartans are trained to survive torture if captured and to escape. Samurai are trained to have the dedication to their art to commit seppuku, ritual suicide, rather than be captured. As to technology, the Spartans had spears, short swords, and shield for close combat. In Japan you find the katana. A 40 inch long, razor sharp blade which is almost always worn with a wakizashi, a shorter companion sword. Finally I must address your comment on mental edge. Samurai are not merely warriors. An honorable samurai must also be a believer and practice Zen Buddhism and must write haiku. This may not seem like much, but remember the complexity of the Japanese letter system. In comparison most Spartans couldn't even read.
Reply:Yeah thats why the samurai were only beaten by guns.
Oh and even the romans tried to fight the samurais and got their *** handed to them.
Watch ruroni kenshin. Type in ruroni kenshin episode 49 on youtube
He is an example of how good a samurai is.
And i guess you never watched the last samurai. Report It
Reply:Anime and Tom Cruise movies are where you get your info from? Awesome. Report It
Reply:Dear God, what have I read here...
"Spartans were illiterate" says the one.
"Spartans weren't tough, that's why their country was conquered" says another.
"Samurai were only beaten by guns"
"Samurai defeated the Romans"
"Spartans were untrained slaves" Report It
Reply:It is clear that most of the guys who answered the question should study some history, (and no, watching "300" and "The Last Samurai" doesn't count), some basic historical methodology and some logic as well, since they obviously don't know what a "comparison" is and how it works. Report It
Reply:its all depends on the person but since they never faced off and they neither exist anynore seem like a dumb question
Reply:dude they're both hardcore...
Reply:An uzi would take care of both of them. What's your point?
Reply:and i could take them both down with a well placed arrow - the true weapon to be feared in all times - archers !
Reply:They both had a very different style of combat. I dont think that its fair to say that a spartan would dominate just because Frank Miller made them look bad *** in a movie... did you watch the last Samurai?
Reply:I do Samurai were so much more advanced (thanx to 2000 years)
Reply:They both live the warrior code, in different ways, but are both lethal. The samurai warrior had skill that rivals the spartan, and as far as training, they both worked just as hard, maybe the spartans had an edge on the fact that they started at a very young age. Technology is also comparable, the samurai armor was way ahead of it's time and was more effective than the spartan's armor. The spartans have an edge on tactics, with their superb formation. The samurai's sword (katana) is far superior to the spartans sword, so as far as one to one combat I wouldn't be so quick to judge them. They lacked the mental edge? they lived the BUSHIDO code, read about it and prepare to be impressed.
In a nutshell, both the spartans and samurai warriors were comparably fierce, adept and skillful, and I would NOT want to fight either want of them.
Reply:I can tell you are the type of person that speaks before they think.
First of all we are Asian, not Oriental. Oriental is in reference to rugs.
Second, if Spartans are so great then why did they not survive and conquer their land like the Samurai did? The answer is because they had no where near the discipline or training that Samurai had. Don't get me wrong, Spartans were tough, but were they disciplined?
Also, I think maybe you have been influenced by a recent Hollywood movie and not actual history.
Reply:Mongolians would have steam rolled them all, had they not declined.
Fin.
if anyone thinks a Spartiate could successfully duel a Samurai/ I take Greek studies/archaeology. Don't assume Spartiates would even want to duel, there is no archaeological evidence that justifies this claim. If the fight happened in Vegas I'd give Spartans 9-1 odds in a bones on bones. If it happened in the Mediterranean on the battlefield its even odds, because of Greek ferocity combined with the phalanx. In a duel its like comparing Ali vs. your next door neighbour [who just had his body cleaved from shoulder to crotch by a katana] There is no comparison to Samurai spirit/lethality in any melee class worldwide, unless you reach back to systems of fighting such as Indian kalaripayatuu, which later ran off into Kung fu and other martial arts. Greek strength however comes from the ambition of men, coupled with the fierceness of a people constantly at war with eachother.
Reply:No one knows. It depends on how skilled that individual spartan or samurai is.
BTW, the fancy stuff you saw the spartans do in 300, used filipino eskrima. Thats why their swords were odly shaped like a machete. Spartan swords and fighting styles were much different than that of the movie.
Reply:1- personally I think you were dropped on your head as a child.
2- SEARCH FUNCTION NOOB!
3- a US marine will take them both out at the same time.
4- both samurai and spartans are HIGHLY overhyped.
EDIT: think about this too- without getting into style or technique too much. Spartans and many fighters in the ancient world achieved thier success from the use of the phalanx. Thier stregth was not in individual combat like the samurai, but in attacking as a unit.
And if we say that the spartans were bad ***, then the romans and greeks serving under alexander the great were 1000 times more bad ***.
Use logic to make your point. you cannot possibly know if a samurai would win or lose because it would depend on many many other factors than technique or skill. Size of the individual and conditioning just to name a few.
and if you want to play around in "frank miller's world" Marvin from sin city would have singlehandedly killed all 300 spartans and somehow found himself a new coat in the process.
Reply:A Samurai would definitely win since he hasn't been dead nearly as long.
Reply:Comparing Samurai and Spartans is gonna take the place of "apples and oranges" from now on. Thanks.
Reply:You should read "The Prince" by Niccola Machiavelli
You would be a moron to speculate such things just because you saw a new movie. If you study warfare, throughout history the side with the superior weapons or in the case the better steel wins %99 of all battles. A cavalry will defeat foot soldiers, archers will defeat a cavalry, etc etc. it's like chess. My example is no Roman army was ever able to defeat any Mongols on a battle field, so how would this be any different. Another example is the 2004 Olympics in Greece, A local Greek fighter made the gold medal fight against a Korean in Tae Kwon DO, they say the Korean guy kicked the Greek fighter so hard in the head that the guys helmet flew into the stands and was knocked out cold. Face it, Greeks are not really known as bad asses, just all hype. Alexander the Greats conquest never went into Hun territory, he just picked on Armenians and Indians.
Reply:The Samurai wins by shoving their Bushido into the Spartan's phalanx! = )
This question shows a lack of knowledge, mental competent, and has a degree of stupidity.
The Samurai is world class as far as ancient warriors at any point in history.
Next thing you know they'll be making a movie on how skilled, ruthless, and fierce Canadians are and someone would come up with a question like this again.
Have a nice day
Reply:no.
Samurais fight for more than 5 years to qualify for war.
Spartans were usually slaves who just swong their swords around hoping to hit something.
Samurai's timed their blows and their blows were precise.
Samurais had lots of mental edge and a spartan was only good with muscle power.
Samurai swords were more precise than spartan swords.
A samurai will get wayyyy more hits on a spartan who fought with agression just swinging his sword around and a samurai always found a weakness in the opponent's attack and for example if a spartan swung the sword sideways, the samurai will keep blocking until the spartan gets tired or the samurai will wait for the spartan to swing first and wen the spartan's swing misses or is black the samurai will slash him apart.
Reply:just because you've seen 300 doesnt mean you know a lot about spartans
Reply:simple answer ..yes...and i also seen some poor guy say a marine could handle them both..hehe..thats funny maybe with their weapons but hand to hand a spartan or a samurai would hand the marine his m.r.e.
Reply:MADNESS? THIS IS SPARTAAAAAAA lol great moive but u have to look at the facts the spartans were good soldiers and they were quite brave,but samurai's were strategic masters,they lived by honor and died by it,just like the spartans they were never afraid to die for their cause or their lands,and just like the spartans they went thru rigorous training to become like that,moreover they had much better technology and understanding of the human body so as much as i liked 300 (and i really really did) i would have to admit that samurais were a lot more liely to win (u can't judge spartans by a 2007 movie that would be biased)
Reply:Are you an expert because a movie just came out????? Find out who been fighting longer and then take your head out of your @ss. Well I guess you would have to do that first since it's apparently already up there.
Reply:i'll bet your real name is richard cranium.and i'll also bet you have no problems living up to your name.
Monday, November 16, 2009
Do you think when training Martial Arts it helps you find yourself spiritually?
When I used to do Tae Kwondo I discovered that I started to discover a deeper part of me that I never experienced before. It is something I was not trying to find. In fact I didn't even want to do martial arts as I was not confident (I didn't even know at the time) My friend who was a black belt instructor persuaded me after alot of effort to take it up. I loved it straight away.I found that I started to find myself spiritually and mentally. I am Catholic. I heard God/higher self/whatever you want to call it. I really found a strong presence within me encouraging me to perservere, tolerate and put up with discipline.I loved the art so much that I ended up achieving things I never thought I could. I ended achieving my black belt and also assistant instructor.I always encourage others to take up the art as it is a nature's way of finding yourself. Most clubs also teach self control, respect for self and others. This is why it is called an art and not a sport!
Do you think when training Martial Arts it helps you find yourself spiritually?
I think that there can be a spiritual aspect to martial arts training. But don't loose sight of the fact that these are FIGHTING ARTS. The discipline and dedication require you to be focused and constantly operate on a higher plane, so the spiritual growth is more of a side effect, not the goal.
The more "civilized" society became the easier it was to muddy the waters of martial training. You speak to a dozen "masters" and you'll realize very quickly who are martial warriors and who are martial lawyers.
Fighting is in our nature so what could be more spiritual than being able to defend or fight for yourself, your loved ones, your property, your God, your country, etc.
Reply:There is nothing spiritual about martial arts. God talks to you all the time, maybe you are more aware of his presence when you feel a need for strength.
Reply:I too am a Black Belt in Tae Kwon Do it is an art that I love very much. Unfortunately they do not have a club where I now live therefore I have not trained for over a year. I believe that there is a great spiritual connection with this type of training as if you really love the art you find yourself drawn to the deeper meanings of the art that you are learning. I found learning the meaning behind the patterns i was learning to be some thing that made my learning experience all that much meaningful. Really do miss the training though as it something I use to live for as a release of daily stresses. I did train 5 days a week though.
Reply:the tao of jeet kune do
Reply:Martial Arts is definetly a way to help you develope spiritually. Doesn't matter what faith or religion you believe in. It forces you to look inside yourself and pull strength out you didn't know you had. MA (at least traditional styles that are not just about fighting) also teach you humility and gentleness, and with the knowledge they give you on how to destroy the human body, the courage/desire not to fight.
This is for Boo- If you miss it, why not train it on your own? You know enough to at least work on what you know, so go for it.
Edit for Daniel- Did you notice that I said Traditional Art that teaches you more than how to fight.
Reply:Nothing spiritual about getting punched in the face, kicked in the head and getting arm barred until you want to cry, then repeat..
You TKD guys...
Reply:LOL - J7 nailed that answer.
I did shootfighting for 6 years and it never harnessed my inner chi to fly me to the great planes of zen.
Reply:communing with god ,not sure , being in touch with your spiritual side definitely.a journey of self discovery,most certainly . art/system studied is irrelevant.the important aspects of studying the martial arts are those things/attributes that are most benficial to humanity and yourself,self control,patience,endurance,determination... for the quality of life.
Reply:I really try to keep religion and Martial arts separate.
"Holy Warriors" just doesn't sound like a good idea.
Reply:You can find yourself spiritualy doing anything, danceing, football even card collecting, it all depends on how you do it. For some reason, I guess because kung fu originated in the temple, people consider martial art to be more spiritual than other things but i thik danceing or anything is just as spiritual, look at how many religious traditions dace for example compared to how many practice martial arts
Reply:Yes ... developing a person in all areas (including spiritual) is the point of the martial arts.
I'm a life-long Catholic, and my Aikido practice very much supports my Catholicism.
Great question! :-)
Do you think when training Martial Arts it helps you find yourself spiritually?
I think that there can be a spiritual aspect to martial arts training. But don't loose sight of the fact that these are FIGHTING ARTS. The discipline and dedication require you to be focused and constantly operate on a higher plane, so the spiritual growth is more of a side effect, not the goal.
The more "civilized" society became the easier it was to muddy the waters of martial training. You speak to a dozen "masters" and you'll realize very quickly who are martial warriors and who are martial lawyers.
Fighting is in our nature so what could be more spiritual than being able to defend or fight for yourself, your loved ones, your property, your God, your country, etc.
Reply:There is nothing spiritual about martial arts. God talks to you all the time, maybe you are more aware of his presence when you feel a need for strength.
Reply:I too am a Black Belt in Tae Kwon Do it is an art that I love very much. Unfortunately they do not have a club where I now live therefore I have not trained for over a year. I believe that there is a great spiritual connection with this type of training as if you really love the art you find yourself drawn to the deeper meanings of the art that you are learning. I found learning the meaning behind the patterns i was learning to be some thing that made my learning experience all that much meaningful. Really do miss the training though as it something I use to live for as a release of daily stresses. I did train 5 days a week though.
Reply:the tao of jeet kune do
Reply:Martial Arts is definetly a way to help you develope spiritually. Doesn't matter what faith or religion you believe in. It forces you to look inside yourself and pull strength out you didn't know you had. MA (at least traditional styles that are not just about fighting) also teach you humility and gentleness, and with the knowledge they give you on how to destroy the human body, the courage/desire not to fight.
This is for Boo- If you miss it, why not train it on your own? You know enough to at least work on what you know, so go for it.
Edit for Daniel- Did you notice that I said Traditional Art that teaches you more than how to fight.
Reply:Nothing spiritual about getting punched in the face, kicked in the head and getting arm barred until you want to cry, then repeat..
You TKD guys...
Reply:LOL - J7 nailed that answer.
I did shootfighting for 6 years and it never harnessed my inner chi to fly me to the great planes of zen.
Reply:communing with god ,not sure , being in touch with your spiritual side definitely.a journey of self discovery,most certainly . art/system studied is irrelevant.the important aspects of studying the martial arts are those things/attributes that are most benficial to humanity and yourself,self control,patience,endurance,determination... for the quality of life.
Reply:I really try to keep religion and Martial arts separate.
"Holy Warriors" just doesn't sound like a good idea.
Reply:You can find yourself spiritualy doing anything, danceing, football even card collecting, it all depends on how you do it. For some reason, I guess because kung fu originated in the temple, people consider martial art to be more spiritual than other things but i thik danceing or anything is just as spiritual, look at how many religious traditions dace for example compared to how many practice martial arts
Reply:Yes ... developing a person in all areas (including spiritual) is the point of the martial arts.
I'm a life-long Catholic, and my Aikido practice very much supports my Catholicism.
Great question! :-)
Christians and the martial arts?
I've seen various things on the internet/chat groups about how Christians have a problem with the concept of Ki within the martial arts. I can understand philosophical problems between Zen and Christianity, but Ki?
Are there any Christian martial artists that can answer this question?
What is the problem with the concept of ki (or chi), and how does it conflict with Christian beliefs?
Christians and the martial arts?
I'm not an artist but I love martial arts. I don't believe there's anything wrong with martial arts. It's just like any other sports, it makes you stronger.
Reply:they say that chi brings evil spirits.... because they meditate and believe in other gods and elements....
Reply:I do think you can have a large chi and be a christian but I developed my chi before becoming a practicing christian and read my Bible 3 going on 4 times and it says not to follow other God's I don't think the development of ones inner strenght is following another god.
Reply:I do not think that most mainstream Christians have the concept of ki/chi. There are those people calling themselves Christians who take offense at anything they do not personally understand and try to say that God is against it too.
Reply:How can you find your chi and turn the other cheek at the same time? The answer is to avoid the fight in the first place. Both then agree, grasshopper.
Reply:Actually it is a way of saying the same thing. I know many Christians who are martial artists and they see no conflict. In fact one said to me, "Christ said to turn the other cheek and with martial arts you don't have to let them hit you. It can be avioded or stopped without violence."
Reply:I'm a martial artist. The martial arts were originally intended as a vehicle for the spiritual teachings of Buddhism.To me,Chi is " The Force"channeled through oneself.It is the equivalent of the power of the Holy Spirit,so there is no contradiction.
Reply:Chi i believe is the flowing of inner strength, whereas Christians are taught that the power of self is base, and to trust the higher power of the holy spirit. I may be wrong on the Chi aspect, i don't know, but I know Christian teaching. I was taught Ju Jitsu in a Christian church setting, incidentally, but we weren't taught any meditations and such, just the moves....how to immobilize without hurting, mainly.
Reply:Perhaps Aikido (The Art of Peace) does not contradict Christian teachings. Aikido teaches 'peace, love, and harmony' of all living things. The founder, Ueshiba said Aikido can compliment all religions and is not meant to take its place.
Are there any Christian martial artists that can answer this question?
What is the problem with the concept of ki (or chi), and how does it conflict with Christian beliefs?
Christians and the martial arts?
I'm not an artist but I love martial arts. I don't believe there's anything wrong with martial arts. It's just like any other sports, it makes you stronger.
Reply:they say that chi brings evil spirits.... because they meditate and believe in other gods and elements....
Reply:I do think you can have a large chi and be a christian but I developed my chi before becoming a practicing christian and read my Bible 3 going on 4 times and it says not to follow other God's I don't think the development of ones inner strenght is following another god.
Reply:I do not think that most mainstream Christians have the concept of ki/chi. There are those people calling themselves Christians who take offense at anything they do not personally understand and try to say that God is against it too.
Reply:How can you find your chi and turn the other cheek at the same time? The answer is to avoid the fight in the first place. Both then agree, grasshopper.
Reply:Actually it is a way of saying the same thing. I know many Christians who are martial artists and they see no conflict. In fact one said to me, "Christ said to turn the other cheek and with martial arts you don't have to let them hit you. It can be avioded or stopped without violence."
Reply:I'm a martial artist. The martial arts were originally intended as a vehicle for the spiritual teachings of Buddhism.To me,Chi is " The Force"channeled through oneself.It is the equivalent of the power of the Holy Spirit,so there is no contradiction.
Reply:Chi i believe is the flowing of inner strength, whereas Christians are taught that the power of self is base, and to trust the higher power of the holy spirit. I may be wrong on the Chi aspect, i don't know, but I know Christian teaching. I was taught Ju Jitsu in a Christian church setting, incidentally, but we weren't taught any meditations and such, just the moves....how to immobilize without hurting, mainly.
Reply:Perhaps Aikido (The Art of Peace) does not contradict Christian teachings. Aikido teaches 'peace, love, and harmony' of all living things. The founder, Ueshiba said Aikido can compliment all religions and is not meant to take its place.
What affect does martial arts have on you?
does it work with you side by side, do you constantly think about training or is it just a hobby
how would you invlolve religion into martial arts
i am a buddhist even though i dont sometimes practice it but the princaple and philosophy are the same
and are you religious, do you need a superior power looking over you or are you an atheist
for bjj, judo guys
when you do a submission do you think about doing it or do you just respond naturaly
ps sorry for my last question
i did get some very intresting comments and yes you are right it does depend on the person, and i was being arragont and ignoring other arts potenitial
thanks
What affect does martial arts have on you?
My religion doesn't approve of Muay Thai Kickboxing, I'm Catholic.
I am religious, but I don't feel that Muay Thai Kickboxing is a sin, but they think it is because it's very violent.
I love it because it keeps me in shape, aggressive, and fast.
I feel life is better and I feel a lot more content after being in this martial arts, all my aggression goes out on the bag or my opponent.
Reply:ive been doing martials arts for the bigger part of my life and i just started BJJ not too long ago and its all i think about. its great. and to answer your question when im grappling im just always trying to be in control in some fashion and get into the best posistion to do a submission.
Reply:Constantly about training...lol
i think martial arts is its own religion in a way, i mean, normaly arts have a set of rules you respect right? these rules come directly from Budhist teachings but they could come from any religion because they are basicaly what all religions teach, respect your neighbour, live well, seek out self improvenment above all else, respect people.........
I pray to god I just sont like the rest of the christian religion :) I like every religions teachings and do my best to follow it and give thanx to God as much as i can
In BJJ you just do it, if you see a hand you go for it, if they give you their neck, well, theres a choke. Doing the move automaticaly usualy happons straight away when your sparing but doing it well, thats what takes time and practice
Reply:I like it as a hobby, however, it also boost self confidence, helps keep me in shape, and also helps me control my emotions as needed, and as far as executing certain moves, particular submission, after you have done it in sparring and practicing it so many times it just comes kind of naturally when you need to execute that particular move,as far as my religion, yes i am christian and in my opinion every should give credit to the greater power that created all of us, however that's just my opinion, i have no intentions of starting any arguments or offending any one Else's beliefs, everyone has different beliefs.
Reply:I started shaolin hung fut kung fu and I've gotta tell ya man It feels great I can feel my body getting stronger only after 2 weeks but you have to find a good school.
Reply:health, self defence
baby flowers
how would you invlolve religion into martial arts
i am a buddhist even though i dont sometimes practice it but the princaple and philosophy are the same
and are you religious, do you need a superior power looking over you or are you an atheist
for bjj, judo guys
when you do a submission do you think about doing it or do you just respond naturaly
ps sorry for my last question
i did get some very intresting comments and yes you are right it does depend on the person, and i was being arragont and ignoring other arts potenitial
thanks
What affect does martial arts have on you?
My religion doesn't approve of Muay Thai Kickboxing, I'm Catholic.
I am religious, but I don't feel that Muay Thai Kickboxing is a sin, but they think it is because it's very violent.
I love it because it keeps me in shape, aggressive, and fast.
I feel life is better and I feel a lot more content after being in this martial arts, all my aggression goes out on the bag or my opponent.
Reply:ive been doing martials arts for the bigger part of my life and i just started BJJ not too long ago and its all i think about. its great. and to answer your question when im grappling im just always trying to be in control in some fashion and get into the best posistion to do a submission.
Reply:Constantly about training...lol
i think martial arts is its own religion in a way, i mean, normaly arts have a set of rules you respect right? these rules come directly from Budhist teachings but they could come from any religion because they are basicaly what all religions teach, respect your neighbour, live well, seek out self improvenment above all else, respect people.........
I pray to god I just sont like the rest of the christian religion :) I like every religions teachings and do my best to follow it and give thanx to God as much as i can
In BJJ you just do it, if you see a hand you go for it, if they give you their neck, well, theres a choke. Doing the move automaticaly usualy happons straight away when your sparing but doing it well, thats what takes time and practice
Reply:I like it as a hobby, however, it also boost self confidence, helps keep me in shape, and also helps me control my emotions as needed, and as far as executing certain moves, particular submission, after you have done it in sparring and practicing it so many times it just comes kind of naturally when you need to execute that particular move,as far as my religion, yes i am christian and in my opinion every should give credit to the greater power that created all of us, however that's just my opinion, i have no intentions of starting any arguments or offending any one Else's beliefs, everyone has different beliefs.
Reply:I started shaolin hung fut kung fu and I've gotta tell ya man It feels great I can feel my body getting stronger only after 2 weeks but you have to find a good school.
Reply:health, self defence
baby flowers
Why don`t Americans respect Spanish martial arts?
Every American I met are trashing Zipota and other Spanish martial arts!I bet that most practitioners of Spanish martial arts could easily crush Asian martial artists!
Why don`t Americans respect Spanish martial arts?
who said they dont, never heard anyone say anything bad
Reply:geodottv
Reply:I'm an American. I don't know any Spanish Martial Artists. I know a few Hispanic artists but no Spanish. I don't believe I've ever trashed any martial artist because of his or her ethnicity.
Reply:I've never even heard of Zipota. But if it's a valid system then it has my respect. Your 'problem' likely stems from general ignorance. I thought that the only thing Spain had was bullfighting and that your fighters wore steel masks and jumped off of chain link fences (Vega? From Street Fighter? Okay. I thought it was funny.)
If you've got such a chip on your shoulder, then maybe you should try to educate other people in the artform. By that, I don't mean go challenging other systems of martial arts, but instead form your own local organization of Zipota, or whatever, practitioners. Eventually, you might be able to fund a school and then you can work to make Spanish martial arts a little more common knowledge.
But hey, if you want to be a little punk about things, I'm sure there are plenty of dojos and gyms out there who would be willing to put you in your place.
Reply:If Zipota were so great, how come it isn't widely known or taught in the world today? I'm sure its a very good form but I seriously doubt it could 'crush' an Asian martial art.
Reply:I have no idea what you are talking about. I have never heard anything bad said about it. If they are talking trash they probably have no idea what it is. As for crushing every asian martial artist, get real. Now who is talking trash ?
Reply:Really? That's awesome!
I'm asian and I will take Spanish Martial Arts :D
Reply:Ignore them or Invite them to a friendly sparring session to settle the argument.
Reply:it's a little hard to trash an art that you have never heard of
Reply:Zipota is a tough one....
The only thing "spanish" about it is that it uses a flamenco dance style. The rest is all FRENCH kickboxing. It's known for its flashy jump kicking style, shin kicks, and toe stomps. I highly doubt Zipota even exists as this Makes NO sense at all as i got it from wikipedia.
Reply:LOOK EVERYONE, WESTERN DOESN'T HAVE ANY MARTIAL ARTS BECAUSE IS AN ASIAN TRADITION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why don`t Americans respect Spanish martial arts?
who said they dont, never heard anyone say anything bad
Reply:geodottv
Reply:I'm an American. I don't know any Spanish Martial Artists. I know a few Hispanic artists but no Spanish. I don't believe I've ever trashed any martial artist because of his or her ethnicity.
Reply:I've never even heard of Zipota. But if it's a valid system then it has my respect. Your 'problem' likely stems from general ignorance. I thought that the only thing Spain had was bullfighting and that your fighters wore steel masks and jumped off of chain link fences (Vega? From Street Fighter? Okay. I thought it was funny.)
If you've got such a chip on your shoulder, then maybe you should try to educate other people in the artform. By that, I don't mean go challenging other systems of martial arts, but instead form your own local organization of Zipota, or whatever, practitioners. Eventually, you might be able to fund a school and then you can work to make Spanish martial arts a little more common knowledge.
But hey, if you want to be a little punk about things, I'm sure there are plenty of dojos and gyms out there who would be willing to put you in your place.
Reply:If Zipota were so great, how come it isn't widely known or taught in the world today? I'm sure its a very good form but I seriously doubt it could 'crush' an Asian martial art.
Reply:I have no idea what you are talking about. I have never heard anything bad said about it. If they are talking trash they probably have no idea what it is. As for crushing every asian martial artist, get real. Now who is talking trash ?
Reply:Really? That's awesome!
I'm asian and I will take Spanish Martial Arts :D
Reply:Ignore them or Invite them to a friendly sparring session to settle the argument.
Reply:it's a little hard to trash an art that you have never heard of
Reply:Zipota is a tough one....
The only thing "spanish" about it is that it uses a flamenco dance style. The rest is all FRENCH kickboxing. It's known for its flashy jump kicking style, shin kicks, and toe stomps. I highly doubt Zipota even exists as this Makes NO sense at all as i got it from wikipedia.
Reply:LOOK EVERYONE, WESTERN DOESN'T HAVE ANY MARTIAL ARTS BECAUSE IS AN ASIAN TRADITION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why do some people say that ONE martial arts is the best? Especially for street fighting?
I'm sure that back in the Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan days, everyone said the best martial arts to learn was kung fu. Now a lot of people say brazilian jujitsu (probably cuz of that UFC guy, Royce Gracie) and several vacillate between kickboxing and muy thai.
Me personally, I am a blackbelt in Tae Kwon Do, and while I don't think it's THE best, I enjoy it very much and I believe it would be a very effective tool in combat, if you know how to use it. The Korean Marines trained in TKD extensively, and they were renowned for their hand-to-hand combat skills in the Vietnam War.
Not meaning to discredit the effectiveness of throws and submission holds, though. I've already learned a few and I will look into taking jujitsu/akido classes or something similar, as soon as I can afford it.
But point is, why say that ONE martial arts is the best? They all focus on different things and qualities. I think it really depends on the person. And besides, martial arts wasn't about... (read on)
Why do some people say that ONE martial arts is the best? Especially for street fighting?
Tae kwon do can be a good martial art, true, but it depends on the instructor, really. Part of the problem with modern TKD is that it is an olympic sport, so most of the traditional values have been lost.
Now there is no PERFECT martial art, but there is a type of martial arts that are the best, no matter what. these are the mixed martial arts, ones where the founders have implemented techniques from many varying styles to forge a truly dominate style.
Grappling styles like aikido and ju-jitsu, while effective, they usually only teach the students how to get the opponent to the ground, what to do next?
Striking styles like Muay Thai are very vulnerable to the grappling styles, or most scenarios they havent been in before.
Karates (and most TKD dojos) would be the best type to learn. The style I do, Seido Karate, implements techniques from Shotokan, Goju-ryu, Kyokushin, amd in some ways Aikido. punches, kicks, blocks, stances, breathing techniques, footwork, throws, joint locks, ground fighting, scenarios for fights, sparring, physical training and conditioning, weapons :-D, and traditional values. not that this is the only school like that. Shotokan, goju-ryu, shito-ryu, kyokushin, they are all great styles. The main reason why Karate and TKD are the best styles is like what you said: they give real life scenarios for self-defense, so that you can apply them. although most of the pressure would be on the student to take in all the valuable information.
Reply:...however, I don't agree that TKD is THE best. And I would probably train in several established styles before I try MMA. Report It
Reply:I am a devout disciple of gun fu, with a 3rd degree in run fool!
Reply:As a professional soldier, I've always been of the persuasion to never get close enough to even consider the use of hand to hand combat techniques.
If I have to remove a sentry? Its done quietly, silently, efficently, and permantly- that kung fu crap makes too much noise.
Reply:Look i completely agree. the only style that is the best style is the one you (the studying student) likes to studying the most. it is only through the enjoyment of the style will someone devote themselves to the style enough to get what they were essentially after to begin with, the knowledge of how to fight. an though many styles due spend focus on the mental aspects, no style was discovered that wasn't effective in some way on the battle field. FYI.
Reply:You actually make the point that I try to convey whenever I feel like answering the bi-weekly question of which martial arts is best for the street!
I would say that the reason most people tend to think there is one system or combination of systems that is better than all others is due to ignorance. What is best for one may not be best for another. Essentially, it boils down to "my dog is better than your dog" or "my dad can beat up your dad" methodology. Ego plays a big factor.
It is also unfortunate that somebody who should know better would refer to any other system as "crap" too, larry the orc
Reply:Really I think you could say that krav maga is the best for street fighting. It teaches you strikes that will disable your opponent, "submissions" that break joints instead of submitting people, how to use handy objects as weapons, and how to take out someone quickly. In a true street fight (especially if unprovoked by you) you want to disable someone, period. No rules, no quarter, just win. Like strike to the groin, throw, arm break or shoulder dislocate. That should be fight over. If you are throwing high kicks or anything fancy you are going to get knocked out. Other than that BJJ (brazilian jiu jitsu) is favored by many because it allows a significantly smaller fighter to overpower a larger fighter through technique and leverage. Again, in a real street fight the submission techniques would be used to break or dislocate a joint or bone. Any martial art package (MMA) training is best because it teaches a variety of techniques, but the bottom line is that without full contact sparring, you will never know what it is like to get punched in the face or hurt, which is extremely important. You might be right about one not necessarily being "the best" but obviously some are better than others, especially when it comes to practical street use.
Reply:Muay Thai and BJJ have proved their strengths in street fighting and practical aplications. ITs great if you can do all the flashy leg work because thats what makes it an art. But Muay Thai and BJJ have proven very effective I myself learn and teach kung-fu Tiger pal to be exact and prefer usign that if i have to fight but iknow if i tried using purified kung-fu in a fight ide get the crap beaten out of me if i fine tuned it for practical fighting it would be fine. But thats the problem no ones willing to learn a bunch of impractical things and adapt it. Thats why Muay Thai and BJJ are treasured they are very practical. K hope i clarified things bye
Reply:Why should any one art be the best ????????
I agree
Let me tell you it is all in the moment many years ago I had a knife pulled on me twice as a doorman (security) the first time i took it off them the second time i ran WHY i dont know it was my job to stop them. The first time i had to be pulled off the guy but strangley enough the second guy was smaller posed less threat but i still ran.
There are so many factors in your own mental state before you consider your training as a factor, it is easy to win a tournament or sit in front of your computor and talk up your drills/ skills.
But to be faced with reality is a differant matter.
Most of the stlyes people discuss are sport because there is vidieo proof of somone being knocked out (i come from these)
But this proves nothing on the streets.
NOTHING WORKS EVERYTHING WORKS
It all depends on the circumstances, situation and your state of mind
if they all come together with your training you still may lose but at least you had a go.
If not you get beaten or run.
instinct is the best form of combat you need to train for many years for instinct is evolution
you can evolve in your life time to allow your matial arts to become instinct but sadly this is not ranked ie by being a black belt.
There is no 1 art just instinct and if an art becomes your instinct no matter what it is it is the best!!!!!!
Reply:jeet-kun-do. pay attention %26amp; you'll see why.
Reply:Absolute best for street fighting is MMA. Hands down!!!! Its the only stlye i know you train in actual stand up and ground contact to its fullest. Like the saying goes tap out or pass out if not break it. I train in Vegas doing MMA. I also did TKD. TKD does nothing in a real fight. Have you ever seen a grandmaster get their butt kick by a MMA student.
Reply:You're right. o say that ONE martial art is the best for all aspects of street fighting is wrong. Here is how I've answered the question in the past.
There are three stages of a real life fight that you have to consider. There is a different martial art that is good for each of these stages.
Stage 1 - Avoiding the attacker and ending the situation without an attack, only with defense.
Aikido - throws and locks designed to immobilize an opponent by using his weight and momentum against him.
Stage 2 - Defend and attack. Ending the situation by using blocks and attacks.
Karate - Uses blocking and attacking to end a situation by taking out the opponent before things get out of control.
Stage 3 - Ground Work. The fight gets out of your control and goes to the ground.
Brazilian Ju-Jitsu - There is no better ground fighting technique than Gracie BJJ. Lets you lock, hold and break opponent. Sort of like wrestling but without the rules.
There is one art that is supperior to all others in the hand to hand combat area (quick military kill, not street fighting) and that is Krav Maga.
Hope this answers your question.
Reply:People will almost always believe that the style they are taking is the best, otherwise, why would they be taking it. The truth of the matter is that there is not single style that is better or worse than any other style, it depends on the individual, and the instructor.
Personally, I studied JKD and found it to be very effective. But that is because JKD is not its own style like Karate, TKD, or Judo, but a blending of many different martial arts. JKD is more of a philosophy than a seperate martial art. Te philosophy is to learn as much as you can from any and every style and incorporate what works into creating your own unique fighting style.
It all depends on the type of person you are, where you are comfortable, and what your physical abilities will allow. For me, I am a big guy. Fancy kicks like those used in TKD are just not practical for me. On the other hand, I am fairly strong and have decent hand speed, so I incorporate alot of boxing and MT Kickboxing into my style.
Reply:I agree, I am also a black belt in TaeKwonDo and enjoy very much. People don't understand how effective TKD really is. But for all those people who say jujitsu or kungfu is the best, Their are people who take taekwondo after that stuff and say they didn't know any self defense until they started tkd.
office table
Me personally, I am a blackbelt in Tae Kwon Do, and while I don't think it's THE best, I enjoy it very much and I believe it would be a very effective tool in combat, if you know how to use it. The Korean Marines trained in TKD extensively, and they were renowned for their hand-to-hand combat skills in the Vietnam War.
Not meaning to discredit the effectiveness of throws and submission holds, though. I've already learned a few and I will look into taking jujitsu/akido classes or something similar, as soon as I can afford it.
But point is, why say that ONE martial arts is the best? They all focus on different things and qualities. I think it really depends on the person. And besides, martial arts wasn't about... (read on)
Why do some people say that ONE martial arts is the best? Especially for street fighting?
Tae kwon do can be a good martial art, true, but it depends on the instructor, really. Part of the problem with modern TKD is that it is an olympic sport, so most of the traditional values have been lost.
Now there is no PERFECT martial art, but there is a type of martial arts that are the best, no matter what. these are the mixed martial arts, ones where the founders have implemented techniques from many varying styles to forge a truly dominate style.
Grappling styles like aikido and ju-jitsu, while effective, they usually only teach the students how to get the opponent to the ground, what to do next?
Striking styles like Muay Thai are very vulnerable to the grappling styles, or most scenarios they havent been in before.
Karates (and most TKD dojos) would be the best type to learn. The style I do, Seido Karate, implements techniques from Shotokan, Goju-ryu, Kyokushin, amd in some ways Aikido. punches, kicks, blocks, stances, breathing techniques, footwork, throws, joint locks, ground fighting, scenarios for fights, sparring, physical training and conditioning, weapons :-D, and traditional values. not that this is the only school like that. Shotokan, goju-ryu, shito-ryu, kyokushin, they are all great styles. The main reason why Karate and TKD are the best styles is like what you said: they give real life scenarios for self-defense, so that you can apply them. although most of the pressure would be on the student to take in all the valuable information.
Reply:...however, I don't agree that TKD is THE best. And I would probably train in several established styles before I try MMA. Report It
Reply:I am a devout disciple of gun fu, with a 3rd degree in run fool!
Reply:As a professional soldier, I've always been of the persuasion to never get close enough to even consider the use of hand to hand combat techniques.
If I have to remove a sentry? Its done quietly, silently, efficently, and permantly- that kung fu crap makes too much noise.
Reply:Look i completely agree. the only style that is the best style is the one you (the studying student) likes to studying the most. it is only through the enjoyment of the style will someone devote themselves to the style enough to get what they were essentially after to begin with, the knowledge of how to fight. an though many styles due spend focus on the mental aspects, no style was discovered that wasn't effective in some way on the battle field. FYI.
Reply:You actually make the point that I try to convey whenever I feel like answering the bi-weekly question of which martial arts is best for the street!
I would say that the reason most people tend to think there is one system or combination of systems that is better than all others is due to ignorance. What is best for one may not be best for another. Essentially, it boils down to "my dog is better than your dog" or "my dad can beat up your dad" methodology. Ego plays a big factor.
It is also unfortunate that somebody who should know better would refer to any other system as "crap" too, larry the orc
Reply:Really I think you could say that krav maga is the best for street fighting. It teaches you strikes that will disable your opponent, "submissions" that break joints instead of submitting people, how to use handy objects as weapons, and how to take out someone quickly. In a true street fight (especially if unprovoked by you) you want to disable someone, period. No rules, no quarter, just win. Like strike to the groin, throw, arm break or shoulder dislocate. That should be fight over. If you are throwing high kicks or anything fancy you are going to get knocked out. Other than that BJJ (brazilian jiu jitsu) is favored by many because it allows a significantly smaller fighter to overpower a larger fighter through technique and leverage. Again, in a real street fight the submission techniques would be used to break or dislocate a joint or bone. Any martial art package (MMA) training is best because it teaches a variety of techniques, but the bottom line is that without full contact sparring, you will never know what it is like to get punched in the face or hurt, which is extremely important. You might be right about one not necessarily being "the best" but obviously some are better than others, especially when it comes to practical street use.
Reply:Muay Thai and BJJ have proved their strengths in street fighting and practical aplications. ITs great if you can do all the flashy leg work because thats what makes it an art. But Muay Thai and BJJ have proven very effective I myself learn and teach kung-fu Tiger pal to be exact and prefer usign that if i have to fight but iknow if i tried using purified kung-fu in a fight ide get the crap beaten out of me if i fine tuned it for practical fighting it would be fine. But thats the problem no ones willing to learn a bunch of impractical things and adapt it. Thats why Muay Thai and BJJ are treasured they are very practical. K hope i clarified things bye
Reply:Why should any one art be the best ????????
I agree
Let me tell you it is all in the moment many years ago I had a knife pulled on me twice as a doorman (security) the first time i took it off them the second time i ran WHY i dont know it was my job to stop them. The first time i had to be pulled off the guy but strangley enough the second guy was smaller posed less threat but i still ran.
There are so many factors in your own mental state before you consider your training as a factor, it is easy to win a tournament or sit in front of your computor and talk up your drills/ skills.
But to be faced with reality is a differant matter.
Most of the stlyes people discuss are sport because there is vidieo proof of somone being knocked out (i come from these)
But this proves nothing on the streets.
NOTHING WORKS EVERYTHING WORKS
It all depends on the circumstances, situation and your state of mind
if they all come together with your training you still may lose but at least you had a go.
If not you get beaten or run.
instinct is the best form of combat you need to train for many years for instinct is evolution
you can evolve in your life time to allow your matial arts to become instinct but sadly this is not ranked ie by being a black belt.
There is no 1 art just instinct and if an art becomes your instinct no matter what it is it is the best!!!!!!
Reply:jeet-kun-do. pay attention %26amp; you'll see why.
Reply:Absolute best for street fighting is MMA. Hands down!!!! Its the only stlye i know you train in actual stand up and ground contact to its fullest. Like the saying goes tap out or pass out if not break it. I train in Vegas doing MMA. I also did TKD. TKD does nothing in a real fight. Have you ever seen a grandmaster get their butt kick by a MMA student.
Reply:You're right. o say that ONE martial art is the best for all aspects of street fighting is wrong. Here is how I've answered the question in the past.
There are three stages of a real life fight that you have to consider. There is a different martial art that is good for each of these stages.
Stage 1 - Avoiding the attacker and ending the situation without an attack, only with defense.
Aikido - throws and locks designed to immobilize an opponent by using his weight and momentum against him.
Stage 2 - Defend and attack. Ending the situation by using blocks and attacks.
Karate - Uses blocking and attacking to end a situation by taking out the opponent before things get out of control.
Stage 3 - Ground Work. The fight gets out of your control and goes to the ground.
Brazilian Ju-Jitsu - There is no better ground fighting technique than Gracie BJJ. Lets you lock, hold and break opponent. Sort of like wrestling but without the rules.
There is one art that is supperior to all others in the hand to hand combat area (quick military kill, not street fighting) and that is Krav Maga.
Hope this answers your question.
Reply:People will almost always believe that the style they are taking is the best, otherwise, why would they be taking it. The truth of the matter is that there is not single style that is better or worse than any other style, it depends on the individual, and the instructor.
Personally, I studied JKD and found it to be very effective. But that is because JKD is not its own style like Karate, TKD, or Judo, but a blending of many different martial arts. JKD is more of a philosophy than a seperate martial art. Te philosophy is to learn as much as you can from any and every style and incorporate what works into creating your own unique fighting style.
It all depends on the type of person you are, where you are comfortable, and what your physical abilities will allow. For me, I am a big guy. Fancy kicks like those used in TKD are just not practical for me. On the other hand, I am fairly strong and have decent hand speed, so I incorporate alot of boxing and MT Kickboxing into my style.
Reply:I agree, I am also a black belt in TaeKwonDo and enjoy very much. People don't understand how effective TKD really is. But for all those people who say jujitsu or kungfu is the best, Their are people who take taekwondo after that stuff and say they didn't know any self defense until they started tkd.
office table
Is there a relationship with kalaripayattu, indian martial arts, shaolin kung fu, and bodhidharma?
Some of websites (such as kalaripayattu websites) claim that bodhidharma learned kalaripayattu or some form of martial art from india and then went to china? However, all of the history books that I've read state that Bodhidharma is more legend than fact.... most state the legend that he taught meditative exercises and not actual martial arts.... all the history books seem to state that his association with martial arts is legend... my history professor in Chinese history also states this and further states that most historians believe that his association with Chan/ Zen buddhism is legendalso. However, there are books written by kung fu masters that seem to disagree with them? What's up with that?
Is there a relationship with kalaripayattu, indian martial arts, shaolin kung fu, and bodhidharma?
Ok... this is long... I actually got a pretty bad grade during college for writing a paper about this and unfortunately using too many websites for information. There is a lot of misinformation on the web (I no longer trust anything i read unless it's from an encyclopedia or reputable source online. Definitely not a martial arts website) There also is a lot of misinformation in books written by authors such as "Si Fu Bob" and "how I will teach you the secrets of Shaolin Kung fu". Basically, your history professor is correct. If you read textbooks written by college professors on Chan/Zen and Bodhidharma... they think his association with Bodhidharma is legend. Some even dispute his existence at all. If you read books on martial arts history, they'll say that his association with bodhidharma for sure is legend and that the Shaolin monks most likely harbored retired soldiers who knew self defense. The concise encyclopedia brittanica will state that chinese martial arts harkens back to the 18th century B.C. Go to google scholar (it has a lot of books written for the general public also with some books written by academics) or JSTOR (which has a better reference of articles written by academics) and look up "bodhidharma" and "legend." All books written by academics will state that he is a legend and his association with martial arts is that... the general books written by regular folks for regular folks like "how to learn martial arts in 20 days" are hit and miss... Hopefully, you didn't make the same mistake that I made and failed a midterm paper based on reading websites for info!
Oh, I found this answer in another area about kalaripayattu...
"As to kalaripayattu....
There is no association historically between kalaripayattu and shaolin kung fu or any other martial arts. This only came about recently and has been pushed strongly by practitioners of kalaripayattu as an association (i guess to try and generate interest in the art). Unfortunately, the general pracitioners of kalaripayattu are unwilling to admit (although Professor Zarilli's book "When the Body Becomes All Eyes: Paradigms, Discourses and Practices of Power in Kalarippayattu, a South Indian Martial Art (Hardcover and almost all other books on kalaripayattu reference this)" that the earliest suggested birth of kalaripayattu is around 11th-13th century a.d. and that the earliest proof of kalaripayattu was from portuguese records in the 16th century a.d. No credible records of kalaripayattu exist before this.
The association between indian martial arts and chinese martial arts is between the legend of Bodhidharma (an Indian or Central asian monk, depending on the legend you use) who founded the Shaolin temple. The rumor began in the 1600's A.D. and was written by a Chinese Taoist monk who did not like the Shaolin monks....
The first open association of Bodhidharma and the Shaolin martial arts is made in the 17th century A.d. and it states in the text that Bodhidharma created the exercises that developed into Shaolin quan in a cave in China after staring at a wall for nine years without moving. Between the founding of the Shaolin temple (600A.D.) and 1600A.D. no association has ever been made about Bodhidharma and Shaolin Kung Fu.
From this legend in the 1600's A.D., kalaripayattu practitioners today and other people have been trying to push that maybe Bodhidharma was a kalaripayattu practioner. If he was a kalaripayattu practitioner, then that must mean that kalaripayattu was created in the 600A.D. and is the progenitor of Shaolin Kung Fu and hence all martial arts! Of course, this disregards the other martial arts traditions in china that go back to before Shaolin kung fu by a few centuries.
There is physical and written evidence in China that martial arts as practiced by the Shaolin monks predate the 6th century A.D. and that most martial arts in most countries developed to some degree independently of each other. Evidence exists prior to Bodhidharma's arrival in China that monks practiced wrestling for recreation. Many people believe that the Shaolin monks harbored retired soldiers who taught them martial arts."
Hope this helps!
Reply:you are right in that nobody knows about this kind of ancient history.
people like to associate something they do with famous people in history.
since nobody knows for sure, nobody can discount these claims for sure. so, we are left with deciding whether we want to believe or not.
Reply:Whether or not Bodhidharma was or wasn't a historical figure or whether or not he brought Martial Arts from India to China, I don't think that there is any doubt that Budhist missionaries from India brought Martial arts to China. Shaoilin Temple Boxing didn't materialize from nothing. There undoubtedly has been a lot of cross culrural exchanges throught east %26amp; south Asia over the centuries. It is not uncommon for those of 1 culture to insist that their culture is free of foreign influences. It is also not true. This applies to Martial Arts as well. India, China, Korea, Okinawa %26amp; Japan have all contributed to MA development. It's hard to know a lot of things with any certainty as written records are very hard to come by. Rice paper just doesn't last thousands of years, especially in moist climates.
Reply:There is no real proof either way . If Bodhidharma did teach anything to the monks of shaolin , it was probably more meditative and possibly encompassed the 18 hands of lo han . I have studied the 18 hands of lo han and they seem more like excersises to be done before actual training . As for his association with kalaripayattu , it would seem feasible that he knew the art . If he did exist , which I think is true , he most likely came from the warrior class , and prior to becoming a zen buddihst teacher he would have learned the fighting arts .
While actual shaolin history does not credit him with teaching martial arts , there are paintings in the temple of a darker skinned , indian looking monk excersising with the other monks . I know Bodhidharma didn't start martial arts at the shaolin temple , but he may have added to them .
Reply:Here is my take on the subject, following a lot of research (like yourself).
Bodhidharma is Da Mo. Da Mo was an INDIAN MONK who traveled from India to China. His base existence is in life and philosophy and then the incorporation of Martial Arts. His connection to the Martial Arts is through the meeting/organization/creation of the famed Shaolin Temple.
Belief from here by some is that yes, kalaripayattu, is the worlds oldest martial art form and that Da Mo was a practitioner. During his travels and quest for enlightenment he studied the ways that animals fought and defended themselves and incorporated (or created) and new form of self defense, using of course his existing knowledge as the foundation.
Is there a relationship with kalaripayattu, indian martial arts, shaolin kung fu, and bodhidharma?
Ok... this is long... I actually got a pretty bad grade during college for writing a paper about this and unfortunately using too many websites for information. There is a lot of misinformation on the web (I no longer trust anything i read unless it's from an encyclopedia or reputable source online. Definitely not a martial arts website) There also is a lot of misinformation in books written by authors such as "Si Fu Bob" and "how I will teach you the secrets of Shaolin Kung fu". Basically, your history professor is correct. If you read textbooks written by college professors on Chan/Zen and Bodhidharma... they think his association with Bodhidharma is legend. Some even dispute his existence at all. If you read books on martial arts history, they'll say that his association with bodhidharma for sure is legend and that the Shaolin monks most likely harbored retired soldiers who knew self defense. The concise encyclopedia brittanica will state that chinese martial arts harkens back to the 18th century B.C. Go to google scholar (it has a lot of books written for the general public also with some books written by academics) or JSTOR (which has a better reference of articles written by academics) and look up "bodhidharma" and "legend." All books written by academics will state that he is a legend and his association with martial arts is that... the general books written by regular folks for regular folks like "how to learn martial arts in 20 days" are hit and miss... Hopefully, you didn't make the same mistake that I made and failed a midterm paper based on reading websites for info!
Oh, I found this answer in another area about kalaripayattu...
"As to kalaripayattu....
There is no association historically between kalaripayattu and shaolin kung fu or any other martial arts. This only came about recently and has been pushed strongly by practitioners of kalaripayattu as an association (i guess to try and generate interest in the art). Unfortunately, the general pracitioners of kalaripayattu are unwilling to admit (although Professor Zarilli's book "When the Body Becomes All Eyes: Paradigms, Discourses and Practices of Power in Kalarippayattu, a South Indian Martial Art (Hardcover and almost all other books on kalaripayattu reference this)" that the earliest suggested birth of kalaripayattu is around 11th-13th century a.d. and that the earliest proof of kalaripayattu was from portuguese records in the 16th century a.d. No credible records of kalaripayattu exist before this.
The association between indian martial arts and chinese martial arts is between the legend of Bodhidharma (an Indian or Central asian monk, depending on the legend you use) who founded the Shaolin temple. The rumor began in the 1600's A.D. and was written by a Chinese Taoist monk who did not like the Shaolin monks....
The first open association of Bodhidharma and the Shaolin martial arts is made in the 17th century A.d. and it states in the text that Bodhidharma created the exercises that developed into Shaolin quan in a cave in China after staring at a wall for nine years without moving. Between the founding of the Shaolin temple (600A.D.) and 1600A.D. no association has ever been made about Bodhidharma and Shaolin Kung Fu.
From this legend in the 1600's A.D., kalaripayattu practitioners today and other people have been trying to push that maybe Bodhidharma was a kalaripayattu practioner. If he was a kalaripayattu practitioner, then that must mean that kalaripayattu was created in the 600A.D. and is the progenitor of Shaolin Kung Fu and hence all martial arts! Of course, this disregards the other martial arts traditions in china that go back to before Shaolin kung fu by a few centuries.
There is physical and written evidence in China that martial arts as practiced by the Shaolin monks predate the 6th century A.D. and that most martial arts in most countries developed to some degree independently of each other. Evidence exists prior to Bodhidharma's arrival in China that monks practiced wrestling for recreation. Many people believe that the Shaolin monks harbored retired soldiers who taught them martial arts."
Hope this helps!
Reply:you are right in that nobody knows about this kind of ancient history.
people like to associate something they do with famous people in history.
since nobody knows for sure, nobody can discount these claims for sure. so, we are left with deciding whether we want to believe or not.
Reply:Whether or not Bodhidharma was or wasn't a historical figure or whether or not he brought Martial Arts from India to China, I don't think that there is any doubt that Budhist missionaries from India brought Martial arts to China. Shaoilin Temple Boxing didn't materialize from nothing. There undoubtedly has been a lot of cross culrural exchanges throught east %26amp; south Asia over the centuries. It is not uncommon for those of 1 culture to insist that their culture is free of foreign influences. It is also not true. This applies to Martial Arts as well. India, China, Korea, Okinawa %26amp; Japan have all contributed to MA development. It's hard to know a lot of things with any certainty as written records are very hard to come by. Rice paper just doesn't last thousands of years, especially in moist climates.
Reply:There is no real proof either way . If Bodhidharma did teach anything to the monks of shaolin , it was probably more meditative and possibly encompassed the 18 hands of lo han . I have studied the 18 hands of lo han and they seem more like excersises to be done before actual training . As for his association with kalaripayattu , it would seem feasible that he knew the art . If he did exist , which I think is true , he most likely came from the warrior class , and prior to becoming a zen buddihst teacher he would have learned the fighting arts .
While actual shaolin history does not credit him with teaching martial arts , there are paintings in the temple of a darker skinned , indian looking monk excersising with the other monks . I know Bodhidharma didn't start martial arts at the shaolin temple , but he may have added to them .
Reply:Here is my take on the subject, following a lot of research (like yourself).
Bodhidharma is Da Mo. Da Mo was an INDIAN MONK who traveled from India to China. His base existence is in life and philosophy and then the incorporation of Martial Arts. His connection to the Martial Arts is through the meeting/organization/creation of the famed Shaolin Temple.
Belief from here by some is that yes, kalaripayattu, is the worlds oldest martial art form and that Da Mo was a practitioner. During his travels and quest for enlightenment he studied the ways that animals fought and defended themselves and incorporated (or created) and new form of self defense, using of course his existing knowledge as the foundation.
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