I've noticed a lot of bad attitudes, bullies, and arrogance in Martial Arts lately. Why is that? Is it because people are mixing too much sports trash-talking into martial arts? Has it become so popular that dojos are forgetting to teach kindness? What do you think?
Has Martial Arts Deteriorated? Have we forgot respect?
The culture of respect you are accustomed to assigning to Martial Arts was Chinese and Japanese customary relationships.
It isn't trash talking, it is Americanization of the Arts. More and more watered down teachers who never truly earned their belts, or outright frauds pretending to teach.
Down to McDojos who are out to make a buck and can get more people to come through the doors without having to preach humility.
However, I would argue that there has always been bullies, bad attitudes and arrogance in Martial Arts (especially in the west) it is just that Martial Arts are more prevalent now, and you see more.
However the humility, respect, and honor codes associated with many Martial Arts still ring true in good schools. It is just there are a lot more bad schools out there as people look for shortcuts, and a fast food style Martial Arts.
"I want to learn how to whoop @ss as quick as possible"
Look around here, you will see tons of questions like this "What are should I take that would help me be better at fighting the fastest".
Martial Arts isn't the exclusive club it used to be, they are business enterprises now. Now Senseis don't turn students away because of a bad attitude, they try to bring in as many people as they can.
This has always been the case, with better schools always coming out on top.
But now, there are way more crappy schools than their used to be.
Does it mean as a whole Martial Arts have deteriorated? No, I think that some evolution is always happening, and for every Tito Ortiz type there is a class act guy like Randy Couture.
You find this in all aspects of life really. There are class acts and then there are blowhards.
Unfortunately the blowhards you hear the most because they are the loudest, but there are plenty of quality guys producing amazing Martial Artists and doing so in the deepest of traditions.
I think that there is some amazing quality and a new revolution in Martial Arts lately actually. People are beginning to actually question obsolete training methods, and realizing how and where to fill in the holes of their Martial Arts.
More and more alive training is taking place, and nearly everyone is learning how to fight at more than one range.
It is exciting when you look at the positives.
Unfortunately like in the 70s, there is also an element that comes with popularity, which is that people who should not be in Martial Arts take it up because it is the IN thing to do.
Eventually those people get weeded out after suffering a crushing defeat or two.
So my thought is while there is some detoriation of ideas because of the sheer number of crappy schools, there is still some great quality being produced and traditions are still being kept intact, and really even being improved upon.
Reply:Probably the UFC / Pride / MMA leaking into martial arts schools.
Reply:for one im a black belt in Tae Kwon DO and i see your point. my training hall is almost all little kids messing around. almost all of the students i help teach quit after the 3rd or 4th belt. i think that the "Ultimate Fighter" is getting alot of people interested and its mostly the beefy bullies that watch that show. also the so yes it is. it used to be 1/1000 got to be a black belt back about 10 years ago. but now its more like 1/5000. so i think he purity of the art is deteriorating. if it was like Kabuki (japanese plays) and only talented or deserving/determined people could join it would be a much better class for all of the striving students. but then there would be so few people joining that it would die. hope this helped :)
Reply:I think the MMA/UFC/Pride popularity has something to do with it, but it's probably no worse than when everyone wanted to take karate because they saw the latest Chuck Norris or Bruce Lee movie. They didn't show much respect for their opponents either.
That's why I like the WCL because at least they bow to each other and the judges.
Reply:I think that its a little to do with MMA fighters takling crap before their fights. I realize the fighters have to be a little cocky to make themselves get noticed, but some guys just take it to far.
Too many fighters are saying they are fighting to EARN respect or to make the opponent respect them, when they SHOULD be fighting to SHOW respect.
Reply:Yes.
Schools in America were watered down to start with. They had already lost their cultural basis. It was only a matter of time that promoters and the business side of fighting corrupted what remained of what was once a grand method of teaching others higher levels of thinking.
Reply:"Fear does not exist in this dojo!" Cobra Kai
I like that movie
Reply:There's a sore lacking of martial virtue in many schools. I've trained in many where this goes on and I've left many for this reason. A good student realizes that an instructor is human and fallible and looks within themselves when they find a situation in their dojo wanting. I train in the philosophy of martial arts more now than I do in the physical aspect of the arts.
Reply:I think i understand where you are going. I have a friend that gloats on how his sensai disrepects the japanese culture of karate and beleives americans are the ultimate martial artists because of our bad attitudes. I come from a school of respect and tradition, but as my teachers say it is not up to me to teach you what your dad and his belt could not.
Reply:It's a much wider social phenomenon, that touches not just the martial arts, but pretty much everything in North America.
When I was a kid, telling an adult off, or swearing at them was absolutely out of the question. Today, well...
The martial arts today have fallen sway to the idea that sports have to be extreme. People don't want to learn dojo etiquette anymore (at least a lot of people don't). Look at all the "real fight" and "street fight" questions on here - there's a sense it's got to be rough, tough and dirty and that the ultimate goal of martial arts is to be able to pound your opponent in the ground and leave him in a bloody mess, probably just because he looked at you wrong.
When I was young, Bruce Lee and the Karate Kid were the examples available in the culture for what martial arts was about and, later on, Jackie Chan. Rocky movies, although somewhat different, can also be included in that list. All of these movies worked on the theme that you fought only if you absolutely had to and that the martial arts was, first and foremost, about overcoming yourself.
The younger generation has been raised on Fight Club, the UFC, Rap music (had to be included) and bloodsport. The message is quite different. The idea is that you fight in order to prove yourself and that the entire idea of learning to fight is to be able to use it to dominate your opponent and prove that you are the best. Fighting is not considered a last resort; it is considered the ultimate test of manhood and anyone who will not fight is seen as a coward.
My guess is they'll snap out of it progressively. It's rare to find that kind of attitude in people past their 20s. If we look back at ourselves, most of us will have to admit we weren't saints either at that age (or now for that matter). But I do think the entire culture has become ruder and that perhaps a lot of young people today are not taking in important lessons about patience, humility, self-control etc..., at an age when these things might do them a lot of good.
Reply:Martial arts are still a source of good in my opinion, so I am inclined to say no. Have we forgot respect? Absolutely! I think quite honestly it is a bigger problem than martial arts or MMA. It's parenting.
Kids are so spoiled these days, it's unreal. Seen "Super Sweet 16"? If I ever backtalked to my mother that way she would have slapped me. Parents today fail to realize you cannot instill discipline in a dojo if you don't practice it at home. One hour a week will not change a spoiled rotten child.
I think it is unfair to squarely blame UFC for the ego trips. It is the fault of parents who let these kids grow up to be disrespectful adults, and the people who shell out the $ for them to act that way because it's good TV. Trash talking is one thing- it is intended for joking/psyching out purposes, and ill-will doesn't really exist. Back talking, shameless self-promotion, and general biting the hand that feeds you is something else. These are not good personal traits, let alone martial artist traits.
The only way we can hope to combat this behavior is to stop rewarding it. Stop ranking that lazy kid, even if he has been the same rank for two years. Make that foulmouth do push-ups EVERY time he swears. Lastly, we must practice respect amonst each other. We can't expect others to follow if we don't set a good example ourselves. Martial arts is not beyond saving.
Reply:I really agree with this. When I started tae kwon do I was told that being promoted was not only about learning the moves and techniques, but also about respect and discipline inside and out of the school. As time went on and I became an instuctor I struggled with this because parents would want to have thier child promoted because they knew the curriculm, but the child had a poor attitude. The parent (and a lot of adult students) thought that because they paid money they were not receiving the "promised" service. What they don't understand is the service was provided but instructors can't guarantee results that's up to the student.
I think another part that makes it difficult though is when dojos use contracts and say something like "this is a 5 year black belt agreement". Now what the agreement states is 5 years or black belt whatever comes first. But that put expectation in peoples minds that they should be at a black belt or very close in 5 years. If agreements have to be used (I don't think they should be) just state a time frame with no rank attached. What's the worst that will happen? OK somebody is promoted to blackbelt in less than 5 years and they continue to take classes without paying extra. Is that really a bad thing? No, it would be great to have black belts attending classes and setting positive examples for the lower ranks.
I've also seen curriculm become easier just so people don't struggle and get frustrated as much and don't quit. I hated this. If the curriculm and moves are so easy, where is the pride when you "accomplish" these techniques?
Unfortunately, this amongst other frustrations brought me to the conclusion that I didn't enjoy teaching anymore. What a shame! I loved teaching and my students loved it too.
Reply:Martial Arts have not deteriorated. The problems are caused by MMA fan wannabes.
Reply:Its the attitude that Dana white and UFC fighters have brought to the sport that has caused this changes,white boasts that his are the best fighters in the world even though they fight like gorrilas and just use a bad mixture of wrestling and "sissy" punching they practice MMA for a week and then trash talk as if they are bruce lee's heirs, kids see this and of course that's the kind of behavior they emulate
Reply:yes thats why i am gonna move to boxing soon but i am still gonna do some MMA because my friends do it and yeah you are right i think it is because of the belt rank systems to be honest with you when ever people get a new belt they think they are so cool i was sparring yesterday with a shodan ho or provisional black belt and i was pawning her i say forget the belts and train to train not to advance in ranks but then that is just me
HUMILITY is what is getting lost noone is better than anyone just train to train for crying out loud
(in saying that some people have humility and a high belt but for the most part humility is lost)
Reply:Yes! Martial Arts have deteriorated! First, the Asian tradiation is getting lame. Second, uniforms are passe.
Third, Sportsmanship is lost. Everyone waiting for that big fight that never comes.
Also in the Dojos, the instructors ingoring the lower belts and paying more attention to the higher ranking belts and those deemed "Golden boys/girls".
Reply:yes in america most dojang have kids fooling around but if u go visit asia they are so good
Reply:I don't know if it's deteriorated or if this is just how Americans are... Look up the history of Count Dante!
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