What has happened to the martial arts?

i look at martial arts today and 90% is xma(gymnastics, acrobatics). personally i love watching it, but at the same time I find less and less traditional MA classes. altho there are some good aspects of xma, a lot of the real application is being lost along with tradition. Ok i'm not saying there arent any xma people that can fight but i mean they try to make everything fancy, not effective. I know that xma adds some aspects to the art, but i believe it takes away more than it adds. A lot of times MA are refered to by people as sports, they shouldnt be sports now, they are arts, people have just turned them into sports. The meaning and skill level of a black belt has become so degraded from what it used to be. Comparing XMA to traditional MA is like comparing WWE to wrestling or even like comparing the harlem globetrotters to an NBA team. Also to many people buy their belts now, they dont earn them. America has an "I want it now" attitude. I see so many classes that if u pay u progress

What has happened to the martial arts?
this is just some of my thoughts on the matter. so take them with a grain of salt.





before when people learn martial arts they learned it because that was a way of life and if they did not know how to fight then they were dead. Also when they trained they were representing their teacher.





meaning that they really did not pay money for their training but they were srevants to the master.





now a days people go to a place and they think because they give money to the teacher or sensi that he owes them and they do not care about the dojo or the sensi as long as they think they are moving up.





As for me. (I take Shorei ryu) the school has been around for a while and the Sensi is very good and we work for everything. However i have heard storys that back in the day the two guys that started the school were very good but the were very strict.





one of them would try and make it so that you did not want to go back. Now if someone was that strict then people whould do one of two things.





1. they would not want to put in the work and get somehthing real out of it and would instead go to a place that tells them they can get a black belt in two years.





2. they see it as they were getting picked on and they would find a way to sue them and some way win.








Now the XMA'S are fun to watch and there are good martial artist that are in them.





they do it to have fun and it is a good way to bring people in. i know that most of the people that you bring in because they have seen the XMA'S are going to stick with it or are the people that are people that want a black belt in two years.





However there are going to be that handful of people that you bring in that if you are a good school you are going to get them to reliaze that the XMA'S are just one of the many things you could do with your training and that the martial arts is far better the XMA'S.
Reply:Amen!





I am a strong traditionalist and, personally, I am not interested in even watching xma or the sport ma. That is my preference.





I would rather watch a traditionally done Form. I believe I have said that I love Forms. In one Dojo they wanted to teach me "competition" Forms, with all the flash and dance and use me to win trophies for them.





I refused. Most of these competition Forms do not make any sense! Those who like flash say "ohhhhhhhhhhhh" and "aaaaaahhhhhh" and old traditionalists like me say "that made no sense!" or "that would not work!"





I do not have a single problem with those who compete in sport ma's as long as they state clearly what it is: sport.





I also agree that the preponderance of sport ma is causing a loss of the traditional martial arts. People want that flash and dance, applause and accolade. Some traditionalists are turning from the traditions, new students are seeking out the sport ma's.





I left one Dojang because it went "sport". Sabunim decided that he wanted his school to earn trophies and the money and accord that goes along with it. I politely said goodbye to him, bowed properly, and walked out.





I believe that the sport ma's focus is not the sort of training that takes years and years to earn that blackbelt. All they teach is learn-it-fast technique.





Most people do not "get" that a truly traditional martial artist does not NEED the applause and accolade.
Reply:No shitman it should be what its called "traditional martial arts"
Reply:Great question. I think two things (there are others, but these seem to stick out to me right now) are that: 1) the lack of great, noticeable figures in martial arts and 2) some Western ideals have diluted very technical methods of self-defense into generic forms of "karate".


People still associate MA with people like Bruce Lee and Jet Li, rather than watching modern-day martial arts competitions (Olympic Taekwondo anyone?). The traditions and forms that come with martial arts are lost to many who just look to know how to defend themselves or fight other people.





I totally agree with the fact that the honor and meaning to a black belt has become diluted, with very young children getting black belts without even understanding what it means. There are so many places that teach "Jujitsu" or "Taekwondo" when they only teach some generic punches, stances, and forms that are not rooted in the philosophy and art of the MA. Westernized forms of martial arts stress getting fit and protecting yourself, rather than understanding the "art" part.





People like Billy Blanks teaching taebo doesn't help either. @_@
Reply:We live in an interesting time. If you live in a city, it's likely that your body only makes 90 degree turns, and your body only gets a small percent of training in its possibilities. You walk on dependable hard surfaces, you rarely ward off flying branches, when was the most recent time you crawled much? So combine that with the further limiting/expanding results of lots of tv (it narrows your habitual left-right eye moves, which makes you habitually fearful...that's my opinion; and it expands your credulity as to what's possible, ie, kung fu guys leaping from trampolines in films, etc) so you're ripe for gymnastics or whatever training


passes for martial arts.


There aren't any real mysteries in the arts, not if you research and practice enough. Machiavelli even has a great section on which he details how warriors from various Italian cities trained in his time. Martial artists will find his description very familiar!


There are old African training methods, mostly lost, that held a lot of practical lore. what we call martial arts was old and extremely well developed in


Sparta...they started boys out by moving them out from their homes and training them seven hours a day until they were, I think, 40. Don't mess with guys like that,or Davy Crocket, or an old-time bareknuckle fighter: they wren't in it for show, they were in it to kill you. (so am I)


And that's what happened to the martial arts. Look: if you were born in brutal times, your dad insisted you learn to fight. So did you MOM! who was, by the way, my first gloves-on sparring partner.


So maybe you learned a trick here, from an older guy who knew one or two, and you treasured it. And maybe you figured out another. And pretty soon you had a few 'secrets' that got you out of trouble in a bar or in an alley or somewhere else. That's the original tradition, and eventually somebody had an accumulation of twenty or thirty 'tricks' and found that to remember and to be quick enough he had to practice, which usually meant linking them together...does this begin to sound familiar? Some of my Chinese friends used to tell me that the sacred t'ai ch'i had in its original form....twelve moves! Big whoop. Except it was better than anything else, and people added to it.


So what happened? well...did you learn to ride a bicycle with training wheels? did you wear a helmet? I'm trying to tell you something: your world is different than the one I grew up in. No training wheels, no helmet until I got into the Army. Lots of fights in school and out of it, and it was OK: guys were expected to settle things this way. I did, and I kept learning, and not liking to fight but liking to win...that's the difference! got me thru lots of judo and karate and Special Forces and...sixteen years of pretty heavy body-thumping boxing/wrestling/karate training when I was already too damned old for it. And I gotta say, I looked in many towns and many many dojos before I found who I was looking for.


Because I'm not interested in the belts, although I have quite a few now, and I'm not interested in the uniforms, and I want nothing to do with a sparring match where somebody ELSE tells you to start and stop and tells you who won...I can tell you it's all about winning when you need it. And many contemporary dojos and methods will teach you 'self-defense'...or 'defensive arts' and that's not where it is either. The whole game is to develop so you can beat everybody you are apt to ever combat, ever. Yes, I know: it's impossible to get to that level, probably, but that's the goal. Read Musashi sometime. He's pretty clear about it. So am I.


And that's VERY difficult to teach, and it's VERY difficult to create an area and atmosphere where you can practice, seriously, and not lose your timing from going too soft or easy or slow or...it's easier to go wrong than it is to go right.


You probably won't find real training in the phone book.


But you can get to be a 'black belt' ...whattever THAT means...


in a year at some tai kwon do parlors, and others. I'm not denigrating what they learn, nor do I laugh too hard at seven year olds who got their black belt...I used to teach those kinds of black belts how to fight, and some of them actually learned something.


So really, any kind of training is good: it's just like this...you know that it takes about ten years for a guy to become a decent lawyer, or plumber, or anything. Why would it be any diferent with the most important interpersonal survival skill there is?


So the problem is that the marial arts academies teach a curriculum, and they charge you for the lessons, much of which could be useful, but what YOU want is combat capability, which can only be gained through EXPERIENCE...and since even people who think of themselves as street brawlers par excellence will usually only have maybe two minutes' worth of real fight experience in several years...so YOUR problem is to find somewhere and somehow that you can get some realistic training that won't cost you your eyes, teeth, and balls before you get any capability.


It's rare, but it's there. The best guy I know in this country is pretty much retired, but he put up with me for 16 years and batted, choked, and pinned and threw my ears back any time he felt like it. Which is OK: I returned the favorwhenver I could and to a LOT of other people during the same time and since. But ol' Roy is mighty rare...you could send him an email at lonfu.com. Or join the service, get into the Rangers, and when you get to Smoke Bomb hill in Special Forces start your own club. That's what I did. But once again: you have to be careful. REmember what crybabies do when they get a lawyer...
Reply:Comercialism has made huge inroads but there are still schools where Martial Arts are still taught the traditional way. They are harder to find because tha comercial schools to so much more to attract attention.
Reply:Good martial arts is still out there...





The problem is that a lot of people are calling themselves teachers who only want to make a buck and a lot of people are getting into martial arts just because they want to learn how to fight.





Meanwhile, the (for want of a better term) "authentic" disciplines go quietly on their way without making a lot of noise or getting much publicity.
Reply:I absoultly agree. Dont get me wrong, the gymnastics is fun, but they shouldnt teach you it at a dojo. If you want to learn flips you sould go to a gymnastics place or ask a trustful instructor to help you with some...if you want to laern. I think karate has changed beacuse no one wants to have a strict hard enviroment anymore. They just want to look good at whatever they are doing!
Reply:anything that wont save your @ss isnt worth while. Dancing wont save you either.


even tradition for traditions sake is lame. move with the times, or stay in the dark ages. if you have learned all you can where you are at, why are you still there? not for martial development, but perhaps the fame of being the best one at your dojo?
Reply:i do agree that xma has taken to much away from MA, but at the same time, i do see why MA are becoming more of a sport. With modern weapons such as guns, and so many people having the with them at all times, knowing how to do a roundhouse kick to defend yourself isnt as important. I do see the importance of knowing how to defend yourself in hand to hand combat, and i myself am a 1st Dan yellow first in the gaurdian black belt style of tae kwon do. i (unfortnately, i didnt know it when i started, im looking for a new school) belong to a school where many people buy their belts, and it disgusts me. i personally make sure i know everything i need to know, and i can do it as perfectly as i possibly can before i test. As a green belt, i could already out perform half the black belts in my school, its terrible. as a teenage black belt, i am as good if not better than some of the second and third degree black belt 20 and 30 year old students in my dojo.
Reply:This a great question.I agree about what you said about extreme martial arts but it is the sign of the times.People watch a Jet Li movie with all that cable work and cg and think that is what it is all about.That's why you have the extreme martial art competitions.The reason why you have the UFC,although I do enjoy it,people do not want to put in the work to understand the art of self defense they just want to fight and that is what martial arts is not.It is these types of attitudes that is destroying martial arts.I know as martial artist we must evolve and adapt,in fact that is the true mark of martial art expert but the new needs to be incorporated with the old not replace it.I still use traditional techniques in kumite and I am successful in doing so.In fact some of the younger students still don't understand how,as they say your" simple techniques" are so effective.Especially when they train for hours to learn some new acrobatic kick.So do not be afraid of the new but definitely keep the old.
Reply:Yeah I kinda partly agree with you. It's pretty hard to find a traditional martial art dojo in America. Xma is not trying to be able to fight and being effective as you say. It's displaying their flexibility and talent. The misuse of ma I find today is in mma tournaments.