Martial arts or self defence ?

what do you prefer martial arts - where you waste time learning a whole culture, the language the kata's , forms, pin point stances where your arm has to be on a 45 degree angle and your feet facing inward learn inner peace and having nice badge's and patches and a beautiful coloured belt that you pay $$$ for and all that crap ? or would you prefer self defence - where you buy pass all that crap learn real street techniques forget the worthless belts no forms just what works ? If you want to learn martial arts BECOME A MONK, I heard a very wiseman say once....... I'D RATHER BE A STUDENT OF REALITY THAN A MASTER OF FANTASY

Martial arts or self defence ?
I think you make a great point in creating a distinction between real world and simply training for personal benefit/growth. Every martial art is different you must seek the one that is right for you.





Martial arts is a broad and generic term. Whatever we call our arts it's all martial arts study, the study of combat. But different schools of belief focus on varied areas of study. Some arts focus heavily on form, some mix many arts, some focus on direct effective conclusions to confrontation but whatever we call our art it's martial art study.





I think this argument truly stems from a my art is better than your art argument that has been debated for generations. I think it best that all persons interested in martial study find an art that meets their physical, mental and personal goals.





The wonderful truth to this world of physical endeavor is there is something for everyone and you get out of martial study what you are willing to put into it. To be a true and honest student of any art you must come empty of assumptions and belief otherwise you are not trainable. If you know everything today than how can any teacher ever teach you a thing?





Great question. It may simply be up to each student to define for themselves is this martial art school right for me?
Reply:I think the two go hand-in-hand. The discipline that comes from learning the stances, forms, and history is beneficial. Even forms, which don't simulate an actual fight teach proper technique and footwork.





If you think that forms, pin point stances, correct angles, and foot positioning is worthless "crap", you will never be the best that you can be when it comes to self defense.
Reply:Thats why we have BJJ, Judo, Boxing, Kickboxing. All real arts with very little kata
Reply:If you want to learn to fight you could do either. Martial arts was originally made only for fighting and self defense. Only within the last century or so have they become saturated with these different martial philosophies and religious / zen practices. Some martial art schools still practice the old way. For the most part though, if you just want to learn to fight, take boxing.
Reply:Sounds like you've already made up your mind as to which path you'll take.





Since it's been over 25 years since my last street fight, I would find training in the martial arts to be very boring if I was only focused on "real street techniques."





Plus, there's really no school that teaches "real" street techniques. Since a "real technique"'s purpose is to maim or kill, there usually aren't that many student signing up to learn from a teacher who would maim or kill them.





I would politely suggest that you have fallen prey to a false dichotomy. True training is not an "either/or" but rather a "both/and".
Reply:Depends on what Style and if the school focuses on the "Do" or the "Jitsu". Do-Art of it, Jitsu-Reality/practical application. Kata is the origin of how it was taught, everything comes from there. They simulate fighting multiple opponents. Working the moves a stances builds muscle memory, speed, balance, and ability.
Reply:the reason they have the "whole culture and language" is because martial arts doesn't just teach you to beat people up, but teaches you to know when to fight and not to take one lesson and start street fighting
Reply:No martial art is going to guarantee success in a "real" situation.





But training in martial arts is going to improve your chances of survival.





All martial arts have merit and would be effective most of the time.





In my opinion, the mental journey will improve your chances even more in a "real" situation.





Open your mind, you have a lot to learn. You may not think the teachings are valuable at this point in your life, but you may think otherwise in the future.





James
Reply:Full contact martial arts(bjj, MMA, kyokyshin karate, zen do kai etc.)work fine , since generally they don't worry about all the extra 'crap'





They train tonnes of fitness, drill, spar hard and compete, and so they can wipe the average thug out on the street very quickly.








Self defence styles like CQC, Krav maga, fairburn, British army juju etc. are okay but very basic.





like most army courses they aim to teach a few basics to the largest amount of people in a small amount of time.





In other words they have to miss out a lot of things. Just like an army combat medical aid course does not have time to teach soldiers to do much minor surgery, or intubation, the self defence styles do not train to block elite level punches, kicks or takedowns and few of them do any groundwork.





Even special forces trainers tell their guys to go get all the BJJ and MMA lessons they can in their spare time if they want to be a complete fighter.
Reply:The two go hand in hand dude. BJJ, Muay Thai, Wrestling, and every style would go out the window if they were stripped down to just techniques that are practical. The only things that work like that are combat systems like senshido, PFS, Krav Maga, and Combat Hapkido. All they give you is techniques to get the job done. We might as well just get rid of the MMA and the UFC while we're at it, since they have rules. *GASP*





You have to realize something: Regardless if those things seem petty to you, practicality IS NOT objective. Hence the term practicality meaning "What works for you, and no one else." The only way an art loses it's value with that is if those encompass more than the sparring (Or instead of sparring), a poor school, and poor training methods. All of those can be remedied easily. Think of a Karate mcdojo Vs. a Kyokushin school in the middle of Tokyo. Are you going to tell me that because Kyokushin has kata, the masters of the art can't defend themselves? Are you high?





Not to mention the fact that many a school are cross-training in other styles for the sake of practical knowledge. For f*** sake: I was learning BJJ in my last TKD school!





Your concept would include every art that doesn't cover all the ranges. BJJ is out because it lacks strike training. Muay Thai is out because it lacks ground grappling. San Shou is just short because it has no ground grappling. Some styles of wrestling are out, because they lack groundwork too. So on and so forth.





Nothing is fail proof. Not even the combat systems that sometimes have dirty moves. It's better to have something, than to have nothing. Kata and those other things have purposes to you know. You also fail to realize there's MANY reasons why people take martial arts: Self-defense just being just one facet among many. God forbid I want to keep myself in shape. It's not like that helps with my self-defense abilities or anything.





Self defense isn't black and white. Fighting isn't black or white either. Your question is highly sophomoric.





If you want self defense at its core: Take a self defense class, but don't be so quick to judge something you don't know about.
Reply:I honestly think you are already down on martial arts so why are you even asking? But martial arts is a much better way to go. Yeah you may never use it but I would rather learn something that has meaning then something you can learn just by getting into a street fight.